(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Welcome to Pillow Talk and Paperbacks, the podcast where a husband and wife tackle romantic books one dramatic chapter at a time. I'm Mary Angelica and I'm all in for an epic love story. And I'm Christian here to question every life choice these characters make. We're here for the plot twists, the chaos, and a whole lot of laughs. All after wrangling our three boys to bed and finally claiming the couch for ourselves. So get cozy, grab a book, and let me remind you why none of this makes any sense. Welcome back to Pillow Talk and Paperbacks. We're back for the last official episode of Fourth Wing. Yes, we made it. Chapters 38 and 39. This is Christian. This is Mary Angelica. If you've been with us this whole time, thanks so much for listening. I hope you've enjoyed this journey with us. It's been quite a ride. It has been. And it's been fun. I know it's been, for us, it's been a little while since we've recorded and put in this episode out, but I'm just really excited to just get to the next book. Yeah, me too. Actually, I've kind of, I don't want to say I've missed the characters, but I'm just eager to find out what's coming next. Yeah, exactly. Because we did a lot of setting up in this book. And so we're going to talk about it. First, we're going to talk about the chapters. And then I want to ask you about the book in general, like your thoughts on it, how you're feeling about it. Yeah, let's do it. Okay, so we kick off with chapter 38, and Violet has been stabbed. She's been stabbed with poison. Oh no. And she's falling. Yes. What were your thoughts? Well, I mean, obviously, she's going to be saved and rescued. But the question is who? And like, thankfully, we find out in like the first chapter. Yeah, so Undarna catches her, which is like, what were your thoughts? She's catching her, she's coming out into the battlefield. She's little, she actually can't support Violet's weight. Yeah, I know, I know. You know, it was expected that Undarna would show up at some point, right? And kind of help out the whole nonsense going on here. And so, I mean, Violet probably feels like, oh, no, Undarna's here. Like, and she's like, at this point, not even thinking about herself. It's just like, oh, my God, Undarna, her weight, like, what am I going to do? She can't really do this. It was cute that she showed up. Yeah, it was cute, as Violet is dying. So we hear a lot, like we read a lot of like her pain, but she's frozen. She actually can't communicate out her pain. She can't cry out in pain. She's literally just there. And we're starting to see some lines from Zayden in this chapter of things that she hears, right? So the first thing is like, I'll take care of you. Just like, live, please live. All the different things, which are things that you've highlighted, like throughout the book, is just like words that he's saying to her in this chapter. We don't find that until the next chapter when it's from his perspective, like what he's really thinking. But what were your thoughts in just their interaction, like with him carrying her, like taking care of her? It's one of those was like, you don't know what you have until it's gone, right? So like now that she's like so close to dying now, he's like, okay, now I'm going to be sensitive and vulnerable and tell her how exactly, exactly. Yeah. And tell her how I feel, you know, which it's a shame that I got to this point, but that's what it took to break Zayden, right? And, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on, right? Like Liam just died. So we just lost Liam, which is a hard loss in this book and his dragon, as well as, you know, Solil. And then as well as obviously there's all this conversation, there's Garak talking, there's Imogen talking. So everyone's talking. And at this point, you know, we have to remember like Violet has only seen them as like Zayden's crew and like Imogen, like supposedly doesn't like her until she started training her, right? So like there's this weird relationships that she's kind of hearing only because she's out of, she's kind of out of it. She's in a coma. Yeah, basically. And she can start to hear them talk about it, like, where are they going to take her? What if she dies? I mean, Zayden dies. And so what did you think about that interaction when she's like passed out and you can hear Zayden and them discussing what they want to do? Discussing. Yeah. And I think at some point, you know, it's very clear that like, okay, there's what's good for us as a group and what is good for Violet and Zayden, right? And it also, I felt anyway, like some of the characters, I forget who exactly, they weren't too sure that they should actually. Yeah. Garrick was like, are you sure like you want to do this in terms of taking her somewhere? Like he was kind of like, we don't have enough time to get to Baxi at War College. So let's go to this other place, which we don't know what it is, obviously at this point. And Imogen's like, are you sure? Like, that sounds like a bad idea. Garrick's like this, right? And Bodhi's like, well, she like, she can't die because she just can't die. Yeah, they're like, she can't die because if she dies and Zayden dies, it's not so much more like, oh, we're going to miss Violet. It's like, oh, she's going to take Zayden with her. That's really what it's about, I think. Yeah. Well, for now, that's what it feels like. But I do think that they've obviously built some sort of, you know, connection to her in some way. And he's very much like, I don't give a fuck what happens to me. Like, you know, like this is, we're going to go there. That's an order. And that's when Bodhi's like, no need for orders, man. Like, we're going to save her. So that's what I mean. Like, he's just like, we're going to be supportive. And that's his cousin, you know, coming up and saying that. And so hours pass. And when she wakes, right, it's like she knows that she's being carried on a dragon over to somewhere. And we do hear a line somewhere. We read a line here somewhere where she actually catches, like, she opens her eyes and she says that she sees that they passed the Cliffs of Dralor. And she knows that it's from the Tyrish Rebellion. Did you catch, like, where they were going? No, not at all. When you read that? No, I knew that it was nowhere that it was a part of, you know, this guy and whatnot. But I didn't really, I didn't include exactly where they were going. Did you have any thought of where they were going? Because obviously they're not going there. Like, what did you think? Yeah. So I was like, okay, so they've got some sort of rebelling outpost. Okay. But I didn't know. You didn't think it was, like, literally the capital of this whole province? Yeah. No, not a chance. Right. I didn't know that that place was still standing. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Because up to now, we realize, we feel like it's been burned down, right? Okay. So, you know, she's, again, more context on the fact that, like, she's basically dying. And Imogen asks again, like, are you sure about this? Like, is this something you want to ask? And Garak's like, you need to stop asking that question. And then these are, you highlighted a name here, which, like, you didn't remember. It says, when you have a, like, someone says, and it's a bad idea, another man retorts. And then Bodhi's like, when you have 107 scars on your back, then you get to make fucking decisions. Siren or Kieran? Let me see. Why did I highlight this person's name? Maybe because we haven't heard it yet? Yes, exactly. Who's this person? Must be somebody else from their crew. Like, somebody else from the... Maybe it was a typo. It's not a typo. Definitely not a typo. Never heard his name. And I will say that names are important in a lot of ways in the series. Like, it's hard, even on the third book, I find that it's very hard to keep up, if you don't remember, like, certain things. We need, like, a Pokedex. There actually is one at the beginning of the book. Like a yearbook? People's faces to tell when they died? Not their faces, but it tells you, like, who's who, what's the name of their dragon? Like, just so that you can kind of remember. Yeah, because there's so many things to remember. On the third book? On the third book. Oh, so I have to wait. Yeah, you gotta wait. But anyway, so they're basically just here and it's like, you know, we need to save her. And so at this point, we're still in Violet's perspective, point of view. And she hears a familiar voice call out, but she can't place it. And they're like, Zayden? And all she says is, you have to save her. And then it switches to Zayden's perspective. Exactly. So I highlighted that specific sentence. You have to save her. Because at this point, I'm like, who is he talking to? Who did you think? Who's got powers to save her? So I didn't, like, we're going to talk about Chapter 39 in just a second. So it's not a spoiler. And people have obviously read the book. So in my head, I was like, no, it can't possibly be Brennan. You actually thought Brennan ran through your mind? Yes. Why? Because he's a mender. But he's dead. Exactly. So in my head, I was like, it can't possibly be him. He's dead. But so it, like, I didn't come through my mind as in like, oh, it's definitely him. It was like, it can't be him. Like, that's the one guy who he can't be. Yeah. And then guess what? But you had no idea. No idea. No, no idea who they were talking about. At this point, you're still thinking they're at some outpost. I don't even know where they are at this point. Right? 39. Chapter 39. So Zayden. And it's a beautiful chapter. Right? Like, I think when you finished reading this chapter, you, I think the first thing you told me, you're like, wow, like, this guy really loves her. Like, I think this is the first, I mean, it is the first time, right? That we get this perspective from him. What did you think about being, like, from his perspective? We've been in Violet's head for so long, right? And we've gone through her ups and downs. That seeing things from his angle is refreshing. And it's nice to know that he's not just some, like, hard ass, like, super strong, good looking guy. Like, yeah, there's actually more to it than just that, you know? And he's struggling the entire time that he's just there watching her. I know, and he's like the best lines. This is the hard part, really. Like, for a lot of us readers, we're like, we just compare everybody to, like, these men who are like, you know, like, my lungs only fill when hers do. And, like, there's all this, like, love, like, absolute adoration, like, for this other person. I mean, but, okay, let's take a moment here for a second. Would you actually like those cheesy lines? Like, if I told you one day, I was just like, my lungs only fill when yours do. I watch your every breath. Well, not with that face. What face am I making? The face of, like, this is a terrible line. Yeah. But there are definitely, listen, like, Zayden's, you know, way that he expresses love is very beautiful. Like, in his, like, the words that he says, they are very beautiful. Those are just thoughts he's having, right? He's just, like, in shock with all the things. And he's blaming himself for Liam, right? He's like, I told him to keep her safe, and he died doing that. So, like, he blames himself for Liam. He's blaming himself for Violet, because he's like, I should have told her more, or I should have just left her back over there. Left her with, like, Zayden, with Dane, right? Yeah. And all the things. There was a lot of things that could have gone different, and obviously they didn't. So, it's only fair that he's feeling guilty, but. We also hear from, I mean, he also has Taryn in her, in his head, kind of, like, making him feel worse. So, Taryn's actually saying, you should have told her about the venom. I waited for you to impart the information, and now she's suffering. So, we know Taryn knew also, and he also didn't tell her, which is one of the things that also broke, like, you know, Violet's heart a little bit. It's like, wow, like, everyone knew, even my dragons knew, and nobody told me? That's supposed to be, like, your most sacred connection. Yeah, but why didn't Taryn tell her then? Because I think for him, it was like, I wanted you to impart the information in a way that, you know, he, like, trusted Zayden to communicate that at the right time, and it did not happen. So, it's one of those things where, like, you know, if you're, like, at the seat of an accident, and, like, you're expecting someone else to call 911, it's like, well, somebody just fucking do it. You should just be the one person to, if you want something done, just get it done. But he didn't. Now, here we are, half dead in a coma, barely breathing. Zayden, I like this one chapter, this one paragraph here, he, like, goes through, like, when did I actually, like, fall for her? And he's trying to figure out, like, when it was. Yeah, that was kind of cool. That was neat, right? That was neat, yeah. And you realize, like, how far back it does go. It's, like, really from the very beginning. Exactly, right? Which is so neat. He highlights, and he, well, he doesn't highlight, I highlight it, but he mentions, and he, like, revisits all these different memories they had together, where, you know, it was anything from, you know, the parrot pet, or the time where, you know, she was getting choked by whatever his name was. Oren. And, yeah, so it's one of those things, once again, reliving all the, you know, all the moments that made. Yeah, which is, like, I think that's a beautiful part of getting a chapter from his perspective, which is so exciting, because as you said, we've been in Violet's head, we know how she operates, we know what she thinks of Zayden, and we also know that, in her mind, I know you know, and we know, as a reader, that's, like, of course he loves you, like, of course he cares for you, but she's, like, he's only doing this so he can keep himself alive, but it puts all of the perspective back on him now to say, like, how much he loves her, and it's so much. It's, like, I cannot live without this woman. And so she wakes up, at first she's all smiley, and, like, hi, she kisses him, she's, like, and then did you, at any point, think she lost her memories? Because I definitely was, like, what is happening? I know, me too. When I read that line, I was, like, no, don't, this is, like, a Spanish telenovela thing, like, when in doubt, just make somebody lose their memory, you know? So I'm glad it was short-lived. Yeah, it was just for a moment. I actually, I think I would have been quite upset if the book ended with her being, like, where the fuck am I? Like, what is going on? I don't know anything, I don't know anyone. Like, who are you? Who are you people? Exactly, I would have been really, really upset. Of course, because then you get absolutely, like, no arc for the character, it's really just, like, oh, we're back to square one. You might as well just be, like, and she woke up from a dream the day before she started, though, her walk in the parapet. Exactly. So she's alive, she's smiling, you know, she's fine. And then as soon as she starts getting the connections, like, to her dragons, and she kind of remembers everything, it hits her like a ton of bricks, and she's, like, oh. I've been lied to, and Liam is dead, and where am I? Yeah, and the very first thing is kind of, like, where am I? Like, don't lie to me, because she can start to see, and she's, like, this doesn't make any sense. There actually is no reason as to why this should be real, but it is. So don't lie to me, tell me where we are. And, you know, the whole time, he's still, like, so, like, it's smitten by her. Like, she's pissed off at him, and she's trying to, like, she says, oh, well, I recognize this, you know, one monument, and therefore, that means we're here. And in his head, he's, like, she's fucking brilliant, and, like, I love her, and all the different things. He can't help himself. Yeah, and you know, okay, she's actually back. Like, she's all here, you know, there's no long-term damage. So we find out that this place actually is being rebuilt, right? Most of the, like, the city in itself, like, did burn, but a lot of it is made of stone, and therefore, a lot of it didn't burn. And nobody's said anything about how it's being reconstructed, and this is where she says the line. She says, Mel Green can't see the outcome when more than three of you are together. That's why you're not allowed to assemble. And he's, like, right, exactly, which means he doesn't know anything that's happening here, because he can't see any outcome of anything when they're together, of any battle. Does it mean that Mel Green, when the battle happened, like, the rebellion, he didn't know? Which rebellion? Well, when Buddy's dad was leading the… Well, no, they didn't have those markers yet. Those were given to all the children. Gotcha, yes. Of all the executed parents. You're right. So from now on, yeah. So, like, he couldn't see the outcome, for example, of that venom fight that they just had, because there was all of them. So he doesn't know that it happened. He also doesn't know the outcome. They don't know what happened to them. It's like a black hole. I just clued into that. So he sent them there, but he had no idea. Well, Mel Green, you're saying Mel Green sent them there. Well, they're all in cahoots. I know Ada's, like, Dane's dad is the one that gave the… Don't bring up his name. Don't bring up his name. What is his name? Colonel? I can't say that word ever. Colonel? Yeah, it doesn't matter. That guy. Dane's dad. Okay, so, you know, she finds out. She kind of confirms that Liam is dead. She's feeling guilty for that. Just all the things, right? And she's like, okay, get out. I need to go get myself ready. And he tries to be all funny. Like, oh, you're kicking me out of my room. It's not funny. Yeah, exactly. She's not impressed at this point. He comes out, and I liked the scene with him and Garrick. And, like, Garrick and Bodhi are just outside the door. They're waiting. He comes out. And then as soon as he says that she's alive, like, Bodhi, like, just, like, exhales. Like, Garrick's like, okay, well, she's gonna have to choose now, like, what she wants to do. What were your thoughts here about, like, where are we now? Like, that you're getting an idea of, like, okay, they're at Arisha. This is obviously, like, Zayden's location and place. What are your thoughts? It's the Rebellion 2.0. That's what it is, right? They're building their fortress back up. They're probably assembling their forces. And they're just planning. But you know what they're fighting now. Well, yes, I know. Well, now there's two battles, right? You've got the battle against the Wyvern and the Venon, right? And then there's a battle against the people in Baghdad as well. Why do you think there's a battle against them? Because they are responsible for, A, the death of many people, right? B, they don't want the truth to be exposed about the dangers that, you know, are out there. Yeah. And they're, like, they're sacrificing. It's more that, right? Like, it's that, like, the truth. You don't want the truth to be made real. So as a result of that, they're sacrificing the lives of other people. Yes. Who do are and are stuck battling, right? Exactly, yeah. So there's two fronts to this battle. Yeah, it's more like they're here fighting the Venon and they're keeping it secret from the people of Exiath. But if the people of Exiath find out, then there is going to be some trouble, like, between both of them. Okay, so basically, you know, he's talking a little bit more about the location, right? Just how, like, they also talk about the box. He basically is asking Garak, because Garak's dragon is more susceptible to runes and he can kind of smell them out or source them out. So he said, did you figure out that box that Krath was drawn to back at Resin, which is where the fight happened? And it's, like, a small iron box. They're, like, no, we're figuring it out. So there's something around, like, what those Venon were after. There was obviously something there that was attracting them. So we don't know what that is yet. Yeah, I thought it was more power. Like, that's just maybe, like, a source of, yeah. Okay, of power. Yeah, that's really, because Venon are the people that, you know, they got the power from the land and eventually everything they touched died, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. So, like, okay, obviously, they're power hungry. So they just want more. Okay. Um, so he showers, she showers. Basically, they're just trying to get themselves cleaned up. And then they have a conversation, right? So he comes back in and she's like, what's going on? And he's like, well, tell us, like, are you going to fight with us or are you not? And she says she's in. Obviously, right? Obviously, she's in, right? She's one of the good ones. But now it's not going to be like Bonnie and Clyde, right? Because were Bonnie and Clyde a pair? Were they together? I don't know what that is. You don't know what Bonnie and Clyde are? No. Do you? For another chapter. Yes, yes, these thugs. This is very famous. No idea. Thugs that went down together. No, I'm just reading fiction stuff. Is this a real thing or a book? Very much real. Well, I don't know. So basically, he's coming in and he's like, you know, OK, you're in. I'm so happy that you're in. And he kind of go takes a step towards her. And she is like, no, no, no, that's not happening. Like, we're not you're not getting my heart. I already gave it to you for free and you wasted it, basically. So and he's like, I'm going to fight for it. Like, he just kind of goes off around like how he's going to fight for it. But he doesn't tell her, like, I love you because he's like, she's going to think I'm just saying it. Yeah. The thing, the frustrating part is that I now feel like we're going to get 20 chapters in the next book of him trying to gain her love back and her trust. And like, we we've already gone through this back and forth with like, you want me, you don't want me. And now we're like, yeah, but her trust is broken. But we can fix it in a chapter. So I hope it's not I hope it's not 20 chapters of this. We'll see. And so he does tell her, though, like, I felt for you, like, you may not trust me, but I felt for you. And there is a little bit of that. Like, he's basically backs her into like a window. And he's like, you still love me. And she doesn't answer. So they're like, it's not that it just disappeared. You know, she just has to work through, like, kind of letting those walls down again. It's a mental block. Yeah. And so as he's talking to her, someone's knocking at the door and they're like, not stopping the knocking. And then at some point, you know, when they're talking and he's like, I'm gonna fight for you. Like, we're gonna figure this out, blah, blah, blah. He's like, oh, my gosh, he's so impatient. And she says, basically, like, I'm hoping that the missive that they sent, like, to Athabine was really like a war games thing and not like an actual setup by Dane's dad. So she's like, do you think there's any chance that maybe, like, we just happened to be in a place with a Venom attack? And that's when Brennan comes out and says, definitely wasn't an accident, little sister. So you highlighted little sister. What were your thoughts as you were reading that immediately? I think I rushed to the next four or five sentences to make sure that it wasn't one of Zayden's friends calling her little sister. He mended her. He mended her. Exactly. Right. So when I was like, oh, definitely not him. I was like, oh, well, fuck you, Christian. It definitely is him, right? Because everything goes in this book. Yeah. Now we're gonna bring people back from the dead. And the last line is from Brennan, like, welcome to the revolution, Violet. Boom. And then it ends. Yeah. So you were reading this in bed and I remember you were like, you couldn't stop saying the word, what, what, what? You just kept saying what over and over and over again. And I think the fact that, you know, the book ended with like, welcome to the revolution. It just means that the next book is going to be really action packed. Yeah. Are you, is that a confirmation? I'm just saying that, yes, of course, you would think that with that line. But not if, yes, not if there will be lots of battles. Not nodding or shaking my head. Move if there's lots of battles. Yes, she moved. There we go. Yeah. So I'm excited for that. I'm excited to get some. And let's also have some more of those, you know, fun scenes in between battles. Well, you know, he hasn't gained her trust back, so. One chapter, that's all it takes. Okay. So you finished Fourth Wing. I did. How do you feel? Honestly, much better than I expected. The book itself, me, I feel the same as I did. Oh my gosh, of course. The book itself is actually, it was fun. It was engaging. It was entertaining. It's, and I like these sort of like new worlds. Yeah, you do. You know, I do enjoy that aspect. And it does have that like Hunger Games feel, which I know you really liked the Hunger Games. And it has that like, you know, we're out here. We're going to battle. We're going to, we're in like a school. We're going to figure it out. And now we're like in battles together. We have to learn about our powers and things like that, which it has a little bit of that, you know, vibe in some way, which. Overall, I like the book. I'm happy. That is my final take on this. Yeah, me too. Me too. The next one, we're going to figure out what is in store for us. We will. So I want you to tell me in this one before we get into the next, the next book, anything from this book that you definitely think is going to come into play in the second book that you feel like it's like, there's something here that's confusing still that is going to get resolved in the next book. Mom and daughter. Mom and daughter. There's a lot of tension between them. You know, one controls the weather. One has lightning. So does that mean that technically Vi's mom can control Vi? Because she controls the weather. You know, what is that? Dane. Let's figure out the nonsense with Dane. Obviously he's going to have to die a slow, painful death, hopefully in the hands of Vi. Or preferably Liam comes back from the dead and takes care of that. Zayden and Vi will make up in chapter one. Chapter two, they're going to have lots of crazy sex. In chapter three, we're going to find out that Melgren and all the other generals and With the king. With the king. I don't think we're going to see the Venon up until like the middle of the book, toward the end of the book. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Because I feel like at first we're going to be getting a lot of more. Because like, I don't think Vi and her crew are going to just go right back into fighting the Venon right now. We need a break from that, right? They were only in year one. I know. It's going to figure out like, what does Brennan know? Right? Like what's his deal? You know. He's been alive this whole time. Exactly. So what does he know? What does he have to tell us? What is the plan? Who's been lying to who? So a lot of character development early on. And a lot of kind of like backstory as well. That's going to set the stage. Do you think they like, what do they do now that they're at this like, Orisha? What do they do now? Because it's like, it's basically the small crew, right? Like. Yeah. They're going to build like a white picket fence around their quarters. And they're not going to live happily ever after. Well, I think they're going to plan out. Okay. Listen, we've been hiding for X amount of years. This is the plan we've got. How do we make it happen? You know, let's do it. You know, I think, I think at this point they're past the planning stage. And now they've been pushed into the action motion because they were sent, you know, to fight the Venom. So now it's just, okay, let's make it happen. Okay. Alrighty. So we're going to end the episode here. And then the next episode we're going to chat about, this is going to be a small intro episode about your thoughts on Iron Flame. You'll look at the book more closely. Read the back of the book. Do all the things. Give us your thoughts on what you think is happening in that book. Just based on the things you read. And then we'll chat about that for a few minutes. And then we'll get going so you can read. I can do that. Well, thanks so much for listening. Yeah. Hope you guys have enjoyed it. We've enjoyed it. Definitely. We've enjoyed it. It's been fun. Yeah. And now we're going to get back into book two, which was just build that momentum. Because once you get back into the story, right? It just like it builds from there. And we're going to be recording a bit more often. Perfect. Thanks, everyone. Bye. Dragonminders, daggers, and books that are spicy just right. Don't keep it to yourself. Share it with your squad. It's true. And while you're here, subscribe and leave a review. We're reading together. Bringing the heat. Laughing through plot twists. Every chapter's a treat. So spread the magic. Don't let it hide. We'll catch you next time on The Romantic. We're reading together. Bringing the heat. Laughing through plot twists. Every chapter's a treat. So spread the magic. Don't let it hide. We'll catch you next time on The Romantic. Just right. Don't keep it to yourself. Share with your squad. It's true. And while you're here, subscribe and leave a review. We're reading together. Bringing the heat. Laughing through plot twists. Every chapter's a treat. So spread the magic. Don't let it hide. We'll catch you next time on The Romantic. See you live.